DOSE: T+ 0:00	15 mg	oral	4-HO-PIPT
T+ 0:42	11 mg	oral	4-HO-PIPT
T+ 2:52		inhaled	Nitrous Oxide

BODY WEIGHT:

150 lb

4-HO-PiPT - first trial - threshold

I just tested my 4-HO-PiPT with Ehrlich and Froehde, because that's about all that I can think of. It tested as expected, so it's some kind of indole. I had intended to take a threshold dose today to be on the safe side, when I accidentally aerosolized some of the powder and almost certainly inhaled some of it while I was transferring it into a new container. I had some nitrous (uneventful) to see if it would kick anything up. The effects grew slowly for maybe 30-45minutes, and I'm finding it more active and pleasant than expected, kind of in the vein of 4-HO-DiPT. It has a bit of its gritty body energy. I quite like it, especially since I was feeling a little crappy and hungover before and now I'm feeling fairly decent. I'm actually getting weird OEV trails following my finger as I type this, strangely. Even some daydream-like afterimages from the animations of the video game that I was just playing. The weapon animations from attacks with my character in the game that I'm playing keep suggesting themselves as trails overlaying my phone screen when I use Swiftkey. Whether real or placebo, I'm at a light +. I can tell that I have some cognitive effects, as well. There's a hint of background positivity, too. That's noticeable since I was feeling rather cruddy earlier.

I would have liked to take more, but don't want to waste what might be my only time taking it on an experience just 8 days after DOPr, with tolerance potentially coloring the experience.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

4-HO-PiPT - 26mg (15mg +11mg booster) - 1st Time -

After a <2mg test dose a few weeks ago, this was my first test of a material sold as 4-HO-PiPT. Tests with Ehrlich and Lieberman confirm that it’s an indole, but that’s about all that I know for certain without sending it off for analysis. Fentanyl test was negative.

12:53 I add 5mg to the 10mg that I used for the fentanyl test. I assume that the total dose was probably still close to 15mg. I ate an hour and a half earlier, so my stomach wasn’t empty.

1:06 I’ve got butterflies. This is either an alert or (more likely) onset. The somatic feel is indistinguishable from the gritty, buzzy tension that I am beginning to associate with isopropyl substitutions (specifically 4-HO-DiPT and iirc DiPT.)

1:20 Pupils are dilated. That doesn’t happen to me often anymore. This feels a lot like 4-HO-DiPT. There’s not a lot of headspace, like the space hasn’t fleshed itself out fully or at least hasn’t yet. My friend remarked that they had been in an irritable mood for weeks, which was immediately lifted at onset.

1:35 I’ve got a mild case of the tremors that I’m beginning to associate with propyl substitutions (well, at least with DPT. I get them from methallylescaline, too). That makes it hard to use the lab scoop to measure out my 11mg booster on my now empty stomach. My friend takes a 5mg booster.

2:00 At a strong ++, or maybe a +++. It’s hard to judge, because the space isn’t as all-encompassing as say 4-AcO-DMT. I can still pull back from the deep end and function, but I’m not sure how well or for how long. This is the peak.

There’s not a lot in the way of visuals, just generic tryptamine traceries, strange OEV contrast distortion and organic curved 2D linear geometries behind closed eyes. They’re undeniable, but unimpressive. They’re de-coupled from my thought process, so it’s probably good that they’re not distracting. If I’m trying to explore a particular idea on a psycholytic psychedelic, it can be frustrating when disconnected visuals keep distracting me and dragging me down other rabbit holes.

Re-dosing dramatically filled out much of the space. Prior, it just felt isopropyl-y (by which I mean like 4-HO-DiPT). The space now is confusing in a way I’m beginning to associate with propyl substituted tryptamines. It doesn’t feel as secure or natural, but it doesn’t feel uncomfortable or unpleasant either. It’s like methyl substitutions are first person, conversations with myself, and propyl substitutions are second person, conversations with someone else. The fact that they are alien, that they aren’t truly me doesn’t make them threatening. It does make them less reliable, though. I certainly lie to myself conciously and subconsciously all the time, but probably less often than other people consciously or unconsciously do to me.

It’s definitely psycholytic; I can feel it worming into concepts that are deep-seated in much the same way as I do from 4-PO-DMT, but with no spirituality, no warmth, no warm, familiar home-coming and or sense of reawakened understanding. This is an alien understanding, very much profane (as in “not sacred,”) not higher, not deeper, not even really interpersonal in its valence. It doesn't feel super cerebral or analytical either, though. There's too much going on in the somatic realm for that kind of imbalanced experience. It doesn’t have that noetic quality that some psychedelics do, in that I don’t feel that the insights automatically feel trustworthy. These require some part of my observing mind to evaluate them or to set them aside for later evaluation. There’s plenty of headspace, but it’s still an incomplete one. Still, I’d locate it loosely in the family of mushrooms, DPT, and 2C-E. Same map, but different terrain. It’s displayed some heft, but it’s going in a different direction than I’m familiar with, like the perspective is turned 90degrees from that of 4-PO-DMT. That alone makes this an interesting and possibly unique material—I’ve had a lot of forgettable or just recreational experiences with different materials, but this one offers a different perspective. Like DiPT, it’s different enough that that alone makes it worthwhile.

What I don’t know is if there’s anything apart from its novelty that makes it worthwhile. What would I even use this for? All in all, it's friendly and comfortable, but I haven’t invested the relationship with it to trust it for insight. It’s not super spiritual, nor is it particularly erotic for me. While my friend says that it makes “everything feel better” for them, my experience is a little different. They have some intense tactile enhancement, but I’m just having a pronounced tactile experience. Not pleasant or unpleasant, per se. Unlike the MiPT family, I don’t feel like this enhances my engagement with things or my experiences. What I can say about it is that it reminds me a little tiny bit of DOPr in that it has a similar sort of dreaminess and a similar feel to it just generally.

I’m pretty bummed that I didn’t take this alone for my first trial. I don’t think that I got the opportunity to really dig into the space and do it justice. A lot of this time was spent with my friend. After I told them that it was making me feel “confused,” I could tell that they were a little concerned. Despite my efforts to convey that I was entirely fine and was just commenting on an unusual quality of the space, I could tell that they weren’t entirely convinced. I ended up spending a lot more time with them in order to put them at ease, and since the experience was so short, I know they wanted to spend a good chunk of it with me anyway. Unfortunately, I feel like there’s a lot more that I could have pulled out of this experience to better evaluate it and maybe see it’s utility; without finding a purpose for it on trial #1, there’s a high probability that there will never be a trial #2.

2:50 – I’m developing an appetite, as well as some noticeable jaw clenching. There are no body temperature issues to speak of, though, despite the mild tremoring/shivering.

I still feel like I can keep the psycholytic qualities at a remove unless I need to delve into them. When I do, it resembles 4-xxx-DMT. I wonder if I were more familiar with DPT if I would see any similarity?

I noticed that during the comeup, finding my way to eroticism and orgasm was hard. In part, I think that was because it was like DOPr a little dreamy and amnesiac. Part of it might have been due to the timing, where I was in the midst of the psycholytic portion of the peak and was trying to come to terms and integrate this change in modes of thinking/being. I suspect that it was just that it was the psycholysis. I was just having a hard time making sense of concepts like desire, love, the color red, and hunger. Without the moving parts for the pieces that make up sex in their proper arrangement, it was hard to get to anywhere familiar.

3:20 Is this the start of the plateau? Or is there no plateau and it’s actually the start of a steady descent? I think it’s the latter.

The weird thing that I can do where I "flex" something and experience the sensation of discharging shivery energy through my nervous system from my core out to my extremities is accessible and I'm more aware of it than I have been in years. I forgot what it's called medically. Prior to reading about it, I assumed no one else had it. I don’t know why this material reminded me of it.

3:45 While coming down from nitrous, I experienced a weird twinge of pain in my chest/heart area, taking me out of my otherwise enjoyable reverie. While under, the visuals that had been absent throughout the rest of the experience turned into galaxies spinning across the cosmos. Also different, the self-referential part of my mind under the influence of nitrous stepped back and looked at me from a remove. I don't know where I could say that I located that other (?) ego (?) that could evaluate and judge me, but that was what I experienced. I don't remember what my verdict was when I started to go under, but I'm fairly sure that at least one “self” that was narrating didn't approve of the so-called “propyl character” of this substance. Upon reflection, I think the closest that I might want to come to this space is the 4-xxx-MPT space. In that one, the methyl vibe seems to balance out the propyl vibe. I still don’t know if I should trust the insights that it provides, but I feel a little more at home there. It’s a little less unfamiliar. Honestly, there is actually a distinct similarity to that space and this one now that I think about it. The same softness, the same intellectualism and ability to retain a certain cognitive clarity, but the same ability to still be deep and psycholytic.

Again, this doesn't feel as isopropyl-y (gritty, calm, and void-like) as I would have expected after the initial comeup and my re-dose. The propyl character that emerged post-booster dose continues to dominate. It makes sense to me in this moment, since the isopropyl substitution is pretty shallow and empty, I think. Easy to be subsumed.

4:30 My heart muscle area in my chest still feels a little faintly sore. Actually, it's more directly under my sternum. While I don't think my experience is connected to that of the person who used a DPT-family drug and ended up in the hospital with organ damage due to proteins accumulating in their bloodstream, it sure as hell reminded me about that report. Prior to this, I had completely forgotten. I’m not having a psychedelic “I’m gonna die” moment; that said, I do want to know what happened to cause that unfamiliar twinge and lingering soreness. [I still have no clue. It was only several days after my experience that I sat down to try to find the referenced DPT report. It looks like it may possibly have been due to muscle damage caused by exertion from fighting the restraints in the middle of a full-scale freakout. https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25872]

5:30 I’m mostly down, and my friend has been down for a while.

6:30 I wouldn’t hesitate to drive.

9:30 And yet I can sleep, but that’s fine. My leg muscles are tired and sore, hopefully from the tremoring and not from weird issues with protein.

Next morning: I took a piss before bed and didn’t flush. In the morning, the urine was cloudy and covered by a film, which is gross and which I don’t remember noticing ever before. No noticeable next day effects.

Overview:

This definitely has a lot more of a feel of its own nature and character than a lot of 4-subs (looking at you, 4-xxx-MALT.)

Overall, it felt fine and I liked my experience. It was easy, wasn’t troubling, wasn’t challenging, and had minimal side-effects. That stands at odds with the detached, intellectual/clinical appraisal I made during the experience, where from that strangely detatched standpoint I would have described it in unnecessarily scathing terms. I think I’m just wary of its vibe, and it didn’t give me anything to make it worthwhile to counteract that sentiment.

I certainly think many people would like this and find it useful (for something). I didn’t give it much of a chance this round. It certainly has the potential for insight--I think it's more insightful than 4-xxx-MiPT, for instance--but I guess that I simply don't much trust the character, the spirit of these propyl substitutions. It just doesn't have that "coming home" vibe that I've come to expect from the methyls, that familiar, brutal honesty. It's lacking that gross organic quality closed eye that I associate with the methyls. There wasn’t any of the familiar closed eye blood and entrails. Instead, it has a simple, geometric sine curve-like squirm to it as it worms between your thoughts, doing its ontological solvent thing. Like 4-xxx-MPT and 4-AcO-EPT, it hasn’t done anything to warrant my suspicion. If anything, it seems to me like it has provided me with something remarkable.

I have long been skeptical of arguments that meaningful, qualitative, predictive generalizations about the phenomenological qualities of different materials can be made based on their substituents. For me, DOM is wildly different than 2C-D, and I never did see a lot of similarity between 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-MET. After this experience, though, I feel like I’ve built up enough of a palate for various 4-substituted tryptamines that I can begin to see certain commonalities, certain predictable patterns. I’m not sold on this, and I’m not even sure that I will ever be able to be certain without blinded trials on myself, but for the first time I’m legitimately interested in testing out 4-xxx-DET and 4-xxx-DPT to round out my perspective and paint a more detailed picture.

I’ve never tested out 4-xxx-DPT, in part because the bioavailability issues are a pain, but mostly because I am so creeped out by its parent compound DPT. While 4-HO-DiPT certainly feels alien, I want to stress again that it doesn’t feel sinister, just unfamiliar. It's actually quite comfortable, balanced, almost equanimous. Maybe that's the isopropyl substituent in the background; for me, 4-HO-DiPT is nothing if not equanimous.

The similarities to 4-AcO-EPT were notable. I could see how people might describe 4-HO-PiPT as "numbing" but I think of it more as comforting, similar to EPT. My body feels soft and unperturbed. At one point, my cold-sensitive friend went and stood outside in freezing temps without being bothered, and I did the same barefoot. I wasn't nearly as impervious as they were, but I didn’t rush back inside either. It’s like a non-stimulating, deeper, less mendacious, more insightful, less uberpositive, less erotic 4-AcO-EPT. As my third 4-subsituted tryptamine with a propyl moiety, I’ve been amazed at the recognizable commonalities between them. Now I want to test out 4-xxx-DET to try to begin to see if there is any truly characteristic qualities to ethyl substituents.

I can't get used to the psycholytic character of 4-HO-PiPT. It's like it's only half there, unlike 4-xxx-DMT, where I feel like my whole mind is getting the ontological solvent treatment. With 4-HO-PiPT, if need be I can step back and write or talk lucidly without too much difficulty, at least post-peak. In this sense it most close resembles 4-xxx-MPT, which iirc felt like a more lucid 4-xxx-DMT, where I felt like I could split off a part of my mind to think, analyze, and process. The similarities are actually really quite striking. However, where 4-xxx-MPT has more warmth, more visual activity, and more of a general feeling of richness, 4-HO-PiPT has more of the lightness and effervesce 4-AcO-EPT, but way more substance.

I don't myself feel like this has the experience-enhancing richness of 4-xxx-MiPT. Watching a movie or playing a video game didn't sound all that compelling on 4-HO-DiPT. Going inwards sounded more rewarding, even if I'm suspicious of where this leads. I’m sad that I missed the window. From what little I saw of it, it did have a subtly creepy vibe in the faint CEVs accompanying the psycholytic process, but all (tryptamine) ontological solvents do iirc.

One thing that caught me by surprise was the degree to which sounds sounded displaced in space. Many of the sound effects in the music that I was listening to (deep house) kept moving around to unexpected spacial locations. The music sounded much more three dimensional than it ordinarily would have without my appreciation for it being otherwise enhanced. I found it distracting, and occasionally annoying when particularly repetitive elements of a track kept pulling me out of whatever I was paying attention to. [I didn’t even associate the odd effects on sound with its isopropyl substituent until I was editing this report. I’ve never noticed any odd effects on sound with other isopropyl subs excepting DiPT, and this was nothing like this. Nonetheless, it was an unusual effect on sound that I’ve never experienced with any of the dozens of psychedelics that I’ve tried before.]

I sketched the following out earlier. I’m not sure how it will hold up, how much is just my human tendency to apophenia, seeing patterns whether they exist or not.

Methyl: warm, organic, deep, familiar, rich
Ethyl: cool, light, clear, …?
Propyl: tremory, unfamiliar, anesthetized, soft, comforting, delusory
Isopropyl: void-like, gritty, tactile, erotic, hunger-inducing, equanimous
Allyl:

It’s wild how some people have noticeably different experiences with different tryptamines, while others find them to be largely interchangeable. I’m curious if among those who do discriminate between would have any consistency in the effects that they experience in blinded trials.

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This was my friend's report:

Piprocin - 25mg (20mg oral, with 5mg boost at 45min mostly empty stomach) - 1st Time - "Meh"

First alert at 5 minutes

Full come up at 20

At peak around 45

20mg produced a fast, but not uncomfortable come up. Unlike other tryptamines, it was not pushy on come up and gradually introduced a very pleasant body-high. Where as miprocin produces an electric like current that runs through my body, piprocin felt more soft - like a subtle vibration of my senses. Touch was incredible, though, and often sent shivers through my body. The substance is not erotic in nature like miprocin or mipracetin, but the body high feels great when touched
by yourself or another.

Visual acuity and saturation were heightened, but I didn't not get the signature swimmy visuals I usually get on other tryptamines.

I redosed when I reached my peak to see if I could get the effects to heighten. The extra 5mg didn't do much for the experience, nor did it prolong the experience for me. Throughout the 1.5 hours of the peak, I found it hard to concentrate on any one thing for too long, and trying to stay focused brought some fatigue. My friend mentioned feeling confused or discombobulated, but I did not experience that.

All in all, the entire trip from come up to completely down was ~4 hours. This is tryptamine tofu, like 2C-D is phenethylamine tofu. This is a fine experience if you're chasing after a short and unchallenging body high. For anyone looking for more than the most baseline psychedelic experience, piprocin is not your drug. While I wouldn't be remiss to try it again, being a long-time psychonaut with dozens upon dozens of experiences with other drugs, I'll always choose something else over this. It's fine, but certainly nothing special. At least at this dose.

Exp Year: 2021	ExpID: 115140
Gender: Not Specified
Age at time of experience: 37
Published: Jun 6, 2021	Views: 1,890
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4-HO-PIPT (931) : Small Group (2-9) (17), Second Hand Report (42), Combinations (3), First Times (2)